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Episode 222 – An interview with Prof. Diego A. Bonilla

Today’s episode of the ATP Project is another interview from the recent ISSN in Vegas this year. Matt interviews Professor DIEGO A. BONILLA, about new research into training techniques and a new method he is working on that may change the way you train at the gym. An extremely intelligent individual, it was great to hear the two brainstorm ideas and where the future of training may be heading.


Speaker 1:           Can I guys, Jeff and Matt from ATP science with got a personalized health summit that we’re doing at the gold coast convention center on November 2nd and third. Matt, what is your personalized health summit all about? Well, basically what we’re gonna do is we’re going to help you find out where you’re at, you know, go through your symptom picture questionnaire, find out what your particular health priorities are. And then over a couple of days we’ve got some great guest speakers coming from everywhere, all over Australia and the world. And we’ve got rich prior to coming over the expert on Korea team, the ISS in, yeah. Yeah. He’s the head of the international society of sports nutrition. Yup. And works with Texas university, man of the NFL and the American military, those sort of people. So some great knowledge, grandfather of creeds and actually one of the [inaudible]. Yeah, he’s smart.

Speaker 1:           Smart guy. Yep. Matt Simon Hill from plant proof. Excellent. We had him on podcast BofI van Kampen, Abingdon, and we’ve got James Newberry, Kara saunas on, don’t forget, we’ve also got Alyssa Lambert as well too. And where and where. I mean he’s capable of getting people out of wheelchairs and probably worth a mention. So it’s really going to be something that’s a bit special and you’re going to be able to follow him with your own questionnaire so that you, when you’re listening to the information, you’re going to be able to effectively help to diagnose your issues or your areas and things that you want to be able to work on. So, and at the end we’re going to get all of these guys together with a big panel for a massive Q and a section. You’re going to be able to break out into electives and ask questions and learn specifically about, you know, different, you know, different areas that these guys are experts and so it’s something pretty, pretty different, pretty exciting and yeah, we’re looking forward to it. Yeah. Our current work. Yeah. All right, well jump online to ATP health it’s ADB health where you can actually learn more. So Matt, Tori, see you there. So then the second and third,

Speaker 2:           welcome to the ATP project. Deliver it into your reference truth about health, aging performance. And looking good. If you’re sick and tired of being sick and tired, ready to perform at your best or somewhere in the Twain, then sit back, relax and open your mind as Jeff and Matt battle the status quo and discuss everything health related that can make you get up.

Speaker 1:           As always, this information is not designed to diagnose, treat, prevent, or cure any condition and is for information purposes only. Please discuss any information in this podcast with your healthcare professional before making any changes to your current lifestyle. Stay tuned. The ATP project is about to start.

Speaker 3:           Hey good. Hey, welcome to the ATP project. You’re with your host Matt today and I’ve got the good mate Diego Diego from where are you from? The idea from Columbia, from Columbia. I’m glad to be here. Thank you. All right, thanks for coming. So, and you’re a fascinating guy and extremely bloody smart. We just had a little chat about what we want to talk about tonight and there’s just so much. So hopefully we can cover a fair bit, but tell us a little bit about yourself and your organization and what you’re working on. Okay. So I’m from Columbia in a

Speaker 4:           city that is called Bobo dies where I, it is my, like my capital city of Columbia. And also I belong to the university and the city towel. That was where I use God, my bachelor in chemistry. And after that I started using, moving for all of these biochemistry war. So I did a sort of graduate programs and especially [inaudible] in systems biology and a masters in nutrition and dietetics. And currently I’m studying my doctoral program in molecular biology and biomedicine in Spain. I belong despite, yes, but it’s a partial, yeah. I mean I work in, in the Columbia, but I move like two months or three months to Spain. So regularly. Yeah, because in Spain I also work with on enterprise dietary supplements industry that is called MTX nutrition. So where I to act as the scientific consultant on that. So that is so close for these a university, you would have the basket country where is called where I’m doing my, my degree.

Speaker 4:           So the point is that the, I used met like five years, more or less ago, like to a very big professionals that were also from Columbia and other from Spain. And we use a, started doing some stuff together and we consolidate what is right now called DBSs. It’s an organization of many professionals in different fields. We have some nutritionist and dietician, so trainers or some others that are exercise physiologists or physicians. So what we do nowadays is to promote the public awareness of exercise sciences in Latin America and in Spain also. And given the support and no of many of these big associations and organization has the NSA or the ISIS. And so we try to have some of these projects, research projects with them, used to continue the developing of the country because you know that in Latin America we have some lacks, especially economically and some others maybe from the human point of view.

Speaker 4:           So what we do is try to join air force. So all of us belong to different labs. So we use, do our best in every single lab and we the support of the others. So that’s why we are moving a lot. So we have done right now conferences in Mexico, Costa Rica, Peru and Columbia, Argentina, Chile. So we great the network that we have built. So you train people up like they do courses for you, you’ve got educational materials. Also use all the resources from all the best labs in the world. [inaudible] network with all the best scientists and then create all that data into training programs and information that you can take back through South America and yeah, exactly. Yeah. That’s why we use our data that we are collecting from different studies that we started like three years ago. It’s moving in all of several lines that we will discuss some, but also with the endorsement of the NSA.

Speaker 4:           So we certify the NSA CPT and we are working on their book under their doctor’s Greider’s book. Yup. Four will be used for the certification of the ISIS and the CIS the same. Yeah. So, so there are many staff that have been used, I mean like propulsive with these network on and that we already have some background in graduate programs because most of us, eh, maybe act as electors or research associates in master’s and doctoral programs in [inaudible] countries. And you’re publishing a lot of this data and everything as well. Yeah. Yeah. And well what sort of projects you’re working on now, cause you’re telling me when we just had some very brief conversations about some really, really exciting stuff and I love the way you seem to be thinking outside the box with a lot of this information. Tell us what sort of projects you’re working on.

Speaker 4:           There are some projects that we have right now, one of them East at the cluster training lab. So the cluster training is like a cluster of resistance based training is more, it’s called. So these kind of approach is used like in a full set of 12 reps for example, eh, we divided in four clusters. We three RM each one on some interpose. So with 20 seconds and could be 40 seconds. So we already actually got some data that showed that the 20 seconds interpose was better one. So that will be published soon. That’s all she saying is we should probably do three reps and what intensity you are, where you going? Maximal or like [inaudible] just do three, three RM. So with that, the purpose is to maintain the load, high loads. So that’s why we use these kinds of approach for trained population. And they, they did a, they currently just do it a three RM, the rest 20 seconds and they continued the other three arm and so one until they got there, the full set of 12 reps.

Speaker 4:           So because that’s so do not really wait 20 seconds, another three and you do four, four sets of that. You hit 12 and there’s that. Do you then do that again again or is that that that’s that muscle, that’s that exercise finished. No, no. We normally use a three sex [inaudible]. So for example, just to put it in a context now I’m like in two hours I’m going to present the entire data bleeds here. And some of the data of these that we did for, it was a closer training program with a in lower limp. So with leg press, squat and deadlift. So they did three sets with 12 reps, four clusters with 20 seconds intro pose each, each one. So a, and we got two groups that were these cluster training, one of those groups intake a 0.1 grams of creatine per kg and a beef protein, half a body mass after training.

Speaker 4:           So that was like the, the group that supplemented group and there was a control group also who continued the [inaudible] training. I’m sort of, so a, what we found was better outcomes in strength and also just eh, doing the squat RM. Yep. The one RM and also a trend in fat free mass for the lower limb in their creating group. So it was hugely increase also. They were actually where we were collecting the data. Yeah. The increases was very good professor. So we’re talking about bigger building, bigger legs. Yeah. And burn off the fat by using the career team and this style training. And actually we divided because this is the data only for lower limb, but we are also working on the upper limb right now. So and the guys are just responding similarly. That’s interesting that it’s that it’s one of the lines are closer training.

Speaker 4:           So that as I mentioned it before, we already got some data about the interpose because that is something that we were like, okay, what’s the theory behind that? Did he re ease daddy given these a small recovery faces that we have. So maybe the cell is going to recover faster. The phosphagen system. And with that you are going to continue on obviously to remove some of these, avoid the, the the accumulation of some Australia stressors as maybe hydrogen ions and calcium, some others. So with that there’s small recovery. What we have seen is better outcomes in my strength and and muscle mass gains. So the [inaudible] just for the listeners, either the hydrogen ions in Australia we talk about acidity. So what you’ll be saying is while you’re having these pulses, it gives a chance for the, the foster gen systems to replenish. So you’ve got more ATP available for the power exercise and it gives a chance for the waste to be buffered and not accumulate the extra acid.

Speaker 4:           That’s excellent. So the first study that we did was to compare three clusters sets because I guess that is the baseline, just to start this, I stand the rising there, their the methods. So what we did was eh, compare 20 seconds interpose [inaudible] 40 seconds interpose and one group who did a two clusters only with six RM with 30 seconds between. So with those three groups and no control group, we ran some DEXA analysis, body composition and also the strength. We’d counter movement jump and, and the squat our RM. So what we found was that there was eh, better outcomes in the 20 seconds group. So that’s why we move with this. Having said that, with these 20 seconds interpose yeah, we start doing with some other protocols now we starting crazy with the creating. Did the creatine have any effect on the 20 to 40 seconds or anything?

Speaker 4:           It was, no, we didn’t study the effect in those hopes only, which is with that what you said like, okay, we’re going to study well from now on the 20 seconds. But yeah, the idea is to actually replicate with these networks because they are similar. Several professionals as I mentioned, that they are working in in their master’s thesis or doctoral programs. So a, they are going to continue replicating the first part of the systematization of the cluster, but also to add some other things. So for example, there are some coming in beta alanine that we have in mind on also because it’s the almost functioning with the same kind of approach, you know, the system of recovery or faster offer yet. So for the listeners, again that increases muscle carnosine, carnosine, not canteen, but muscle carnosine is, would it be the most powerful intramuscular acidity buffer?

Speaker 4:           Yeah. Yes. This day peptide is going to quench even a, some other eh ions and, and the hydrogen ions. And it’s very, it’s very popular nowadays. And you know, the beta learning has well supported data in different studies. So that is the way that it works. Excellent. Oh, that’s really cool. Yeah. What else? Let’s say you do a lot more with, it tells me more about these bioinformatics, these, this. Okay. So that is some other line that we are already used. Trying to put some stuff together because by informatics is our knowledge. Discipline is like from 90 60 more or less so but given these a explosion of the genomic era in nineties 1990s and 20s or 20,000 so the, the the 2000 sorry. So there are a lot of data that accumulates. So the, there was like a need to create more algorithms to analyze all of that data, all the different genes and not only genes but also broad themes because you know that nowadays with proteomics, metabolomics, so we excused the amount of data.

Speaker 4:           So what metal bar by informatic desk is just to create some eh, pipelines with computers where you can use at broad data to analyze it and to put your in a make it sense. So, but that is only like a piece of this puzzle because, because with by informatics you did use, for example, organized data from a sequencing. Could be a that you are analyzing the differential express genes after our training session. So a with all of those data, so if you need something they computer who analyze this so that the computer use given an outcome. But with that we need to use the other approach that is the systems biology where you are going to integrate all of that to a network. So for example, new systems biology is an interdisciplinary field where you have this part by informatics but also the and knowledge, the deep knowledge in biochemistry and these low throughput that are called low throughput analysis with a broad EMSS and some others they are called low throughput because you can run use one by one, but they can be mixed and complimented with the high throughput sequencing methods and some others.

Speaker 4:           Where do you analyze the full notes or the full entities of a network and can you use that and what’s the end goal of that? Can we use that to have a personalized prescription or or see what sort of training works for the person? That’s my point. So we do, for example, you move from juice, the single methods, the low throughput to the high throughput, and you combine them to create a network where you can analyze or into see with some other enrichment tools. You can see, for example, what is, what is the pathway maybe whoosh was affected the most by the exercise or some nutritional intervention or some supplements. And with that you can analyze the behavior of the network on obviously, eh, that that is something that was done for example, in a paper of [inaudible] and [inaudible] in 2008 when they did a Nosema sensing analysis of all of the genes that change after creating supplementation.

Speaker 4:           So on and they found different, eh, not only M RNA expression profiles, but also the proteins, which proteins with which kindnesses change after the supplementation. And with that they use a guide after analysis. This kind of enrichment that I told you what was like the main pathways that are affecting or being affected after the supplementation. So that’s why they just got these map kinase a P 38 or the [inaudible] fingers in kinase and some others that are more sensible for the Osmo variation. Okay. So that is the point with the, with the assistant biology. So there is a need or nowadays to to continue developing more techniques. Actually we are moving from the first generation sequencing methods that were used like by hand, almost use trying to sequence the DNA. For example, use a add in a step by step, layer by layer. So that’s what is huge.

Speaker 4:           That what is difficult. So, but now the most common method that we use is the second one. The second generation techniques, they are, eh, more automatically develop. But there is a new one that is called Nanopore sequencing. Those are the three generation, the third generation solution methods actually. And they have more, more advances in this one Nanopore sequencing. Some others OSS for methods that they recall. So because in Australia, again, a lot of, not all of our listeners are Australian. I shouldn’t just keep focusing on Australia, but we talk. But they’re the main we people I talk to I suppose, but that a lot of people were getting gene tests and [inaudible] telling me I’ve got this genetic polymorphism, other snip or you know, so but we are, Toronto was talking about gene expression and you’ve just suggested there that you’ve actually, there’s technology available that shows that in response to certain training or certain supplementation you can turn on or off genes, you can manipulate your genetic profile.

Speaker 4:           That’s very important that you mentioned that because there is a huge confusion between between what is nutrigenomics and what is Nutri genetics. Because nutrigenomics is, these fields that I maybe have been talking about is the fact where do you intervene with people with some of dietary approach or a supplement and you see what is changing in the cell or in a given sample. But the other point is that your individual isn’t it? That’s it’s unique to the individual or VC. You can see in, in, in a, in a full sample. You can see how they, they have patterns. Yeah. So we see maybe our regular, I’m know a bad way or a signaling pathway or whatever or a gene that is turned on or sort of bad. In the other case they’re neutral. Genetics is is more individualized. But there are many funny stuff that appears nowadays because they are offering a lot of these methods for the like trying to do to have your personalized diet and that.

Speaker 4:           But that is in the infancy actually right now or those because even the methods to analyze on the polymorphism and some of them we have those, they came from saliva and there are some day doubts about their, their like the efficiency of the method but but also not only that but that this is more commercial. I see right now because there are some factors that obviously they can affect for example, lactase deficiency because of some mutation or snips or whatever. So that can affects obviously the habitual diet of the, of the person. But it doesn’t mean that you need to have your fullest screen and the genetic profile and that because there aren’t many staff that are being used, developing, continuing to develop. So, and we even say people with what appears to be a good genetic profile expressing a defect in a genetic polymorphism because of the diet, lifestyle or supplementation in.

Speaker 4:           Conversely, we can probably change a lot of that by fixing one of these things is that in future years there will be some new advances about these, but the technology must be improved on. Also some of the methods that we use the sampling and that used to have a better outcome because he’s better to see not only these individual factors but also how they respond. So that’s why he’s better to integrate those two. Exactly. And you want to, you want to see what’s actually happening in the person. So let’s look at what about microbiome. There’s a hole after that whole genome era that just went into this massive micro-biome. Now is there, so is that, is your work involving in with the market buyer? Yeah, my actually one of the lines of the doctoral thesis is, is with analyzing the effects of creatine monohydrate in the microbiome.

Speaker 4:           So on how can affects different species and the characterization of that. So actually the this systems biology approach is used to analyze metogenomic Lee did the, the microbiome. So what we do is normally we extract some samples, could be F feces or it could be from saliva from different, you know, where it, the bacteria they are. So after that, eh, eh, the DNA is distracted and you have a portion that is called the 16 S RNA and there are some new methods to have some proofs forward and reverse proofs in your specific regions where you can have like the fingerprint of these bacteria. With that you run a, you go reverse like a goal for the phyllo genetic analysis to, to maybe to found, to find what is the bacteria, which is the most abundant on that. So this has been developed also maybe the, eh, the audience could be interested in that.

Speaker 4:           The Dr. Jackson in George Winston in the adjuncts laboratory, they were having some results about the elite cyclists and characterizing the changes after how they have these different species of bacteria. And so Marc Chi in the, in the gut. So any, any particular bugs that thrive with? There are like two in the, in the with these cyclists they were improve the Methanobrevibacter and Prevotella that where you slept the highest, but that is, that can have some variations. Actually yesterday here in the ISIN, Dr. Campbell was showing some results also from animal studies where they found after some bouts of exercise difference changes also in, in, in microbiome. So we’d creating, the point is that there are some hypothesis in animal studies. There was one study by a Langley in 2014 where they did not in mice, like an humanized mice and they start giving some patterns of these changes after the, the aging process and they found in the creatine and creating the degradation product of creating, we’re more metabolized during the aging process.

Speaker 4:           So these bacteria, because they didn’t analyze specifically which kind of these, because there are many. Yeah. So what they found was that these aging process affects some of the metabolization of these molecules creating certain bugs that might encourage the conversion of creatine to create and then before we absorb it. Or was that, was that, no, is that, is that a, normally we use, we have you know, discretion of kreatin by means of creatinine. Yeah. Not antiemetic process. But the point was that after the measurements that they were doing in some time points they found more degradation in Korea team and also in Korea team. So by the, because there are no, that was wondering if the bugs were eating the creating and excrete in creating and that we were eating. The bugs are going to get a first [inaudible] they are used metabolizing faster creating and creating the, because remember that they can have these [inaudible] they can have different enzymatic part ways that us so they can use creating, we don’t use it.

Speaker 4:           We actually, we use [inaudible] but they can use it. They can eh, eh metabolize it in different products. So there are several nitrogen, dairy white products that came from the Korea team. So that’s why they were juice more metabolize. What about, I’m just going to keep asking these questions. Have you noticed it with the plant? Any vegan information like plant based people on a plant based diet? Have they got a microbiome that can help them replenish their career team or something. Is there any, any discoveries there that, no, I’m not sure actually you right now that there is still maybe a [inaudible] or something like that, but there have been some studies nowadays that we are trying to use to characterize populations and to that and maybe in future years there will be some other, I mean like better outcome to know we should species is going to be better for given populations but what is is also known nowadays is the effect that some probiotics now, so leftovers he lose new Samsung.

Speaker 4:           Others, yeah, on bifidobacterium. Some families that can help and support some good there go genic effects but we had some variability so yeah that’s the point used to find the better and maybe that could be with a good outcome in the, in the sports or genic chemicals, anything was creating in that gut wall. I noticed in the seminar they’re talking again about heat shock proteins, creating a leaky gut wall and that sort of stuff and any, anything in there have you come across? Yup. Are about, there are some antiinflammatory, no effects of creating also in these are actually maturing these HSP, the heat chocolate Sampson models and for example there is a, when there is an, if a deficiency in the agate [inaudible] MADEC 100 and see aggregate steps of the creating synthesis, arginine, leucine, Amedeo transparency. So the people that’s in the methylation at Gwinnett oversee the gas and the creating.

Speaker 4:           Yes, exactly. Yeah. So in that, except when people have in the, in some of these internal sites that you have a lacking of the year or, or lower activity, all of these enzyme and the people, there will be some core relationship to have bowel disease, [inaudible] syndrome. So that could have some good interesting like profile. Yeah. Oh, it’s fascinating stuff. Oh yeah. Actually, because this is a big thing. We’re learning so much now about the microbiome. We always looked at our body and looking at our own potentially genetics or whatever, but pathways, but the microbiome’s going to get it first. Yeah. So that’s a really important and fascinating shot because we are like the hosts. Exactly. Well Ollie, 10 times as many of them. There was us [inaudible] vectors for transport for that. There are some data that says that nowadays that you say are like 1.3 or 1.4 a like curious, very human cell.

Speaker 4:           So they are more, more than as they’d probably just with you cause I want to go to Cuba and Spain and then back to South America. They have are very, I mean a very interesting combination there. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, so that is one of the of the of the the MROs very nice topics that we have been working on with the, with the fact of different training interventions and, and just you see in many populations, because we have been working for health, we are having a cluster training also for, for aging people. Yeah. So for older people, okay. It makes a lot of sense actually for that group too because your teammates, the job that you optimize, some of them will actually get the injuries in that stage. Your fatigue as well as they start to lose technique and form. So if you have a cluster stuff, you said that you get that little 22nd break cause it might even be enough for them to be [inaudible] back into that focus and that even that must’ve mind connection, you know, but just getting that time to just refocus and work on tech.

Speaker 4:           Second form. Yeah. So the internal and external focus actually we tried used to control it also. So that, so that that class, the trainings that published data that people couldn’t find somewhere. Yeah. There are some other jobs already that have been done. We already publish one that was accepted for the eh, for the ASM conference. Some others. So listen to, there are some that are have been published and there are some other that upcoming. Yeah. And so in these, in the same fashion, one other interesting thing is that we’re working on the differences that can have these contraceptive pills in women. So yeah, talk to them about is we found that using contraceptive pills doesn’t affect the, as the, the popular maybe thinking they are just concerned about the eh, fat gaining or, or some other or the decrease in performance. And that, but we didn’t found that actually was similar increases.

Speaker 4:           It’s obvious that we need more like control some other variables because we mix up some of these contraceptive pills in one of us, you country classic sick in both groups. So that our next step is to analyze what happened with those girls who using take monophasic and refi seek. Just to see if maybe we have some changes. But at this moment we didn’t find any like particular pills or estrogen or progesterone based pills this way or use estrogen? No, no real link there at all with the, the changing in the, no we without, with fat mass sediment you yeah, no, no. There were no changes saying we use index and use to measure the changes after their protocol. So what is also a protocol we already have some works before to optimize a gains. So you use some protocols with eh, eh, eh, like eh, from eight to 12 reps.

Speaker 4:           So you know, the full series, 24 sets per session and we know an upper and lower limb fashion. So with this method and given that they didn’t change them. And the other one that we were just talking was about the ketogenic diet. So we just published one article just the last year and we found that he in a hyper energetic diet as let’s say in a calorie surplus. Yeah. Caloric surplus. Yeah. Training men. Yup. They ran these kind of approach of training the same upper limb, upper lower limb. So just trying to promote a Balkan now working phase. So we compare high protein diet, we the ketogenic diet and a high protein diet, but traditional, you know, yeah. With the carbohydrates more than surrounding the 55% so what we found was that given these eh, surplus indicated genic group, they don’t gain muscle. [inaudible]

Speaker 4:           sustained. Yeah. There was [inaudible] but they lose some of fat. They lose fat, fat mass and [inaudible]. So it was a strange, we found that. So let’s say just it for the listeners, I’ve got this right too, because I mean, everything’s calories in, calories out. I thought you got into a calorie surplus, you’re going to grow. But in so doing a calorie surplus following the ketogenic style diet, they didn’t grow. Yeah, no, they actually lost that actually. They lose fat. Yeah. And they maintain the muscle mass. So yeah. So was something that was a strange that we found. Like was there any extra studies like looking at mitochondrial biogenesis or mitochondrial density? Was there, did something grow? Yeah, the calorie surplus was something extra building. Was density increasing or was something or I don’t know maybe if for these studies, because there are many, you know that there are some that promote the ketogenic and some others maybe not, but we just some clarity.

Speaker 4:           We’re not talking about exogenous ketones on the normal diet we’re talking about, we are talking about reducing their carbohydrates. They the extra calories where they were coming from the yes. Yup. Yup. And your protein adequate protein was like two, two grams per kg post. Yeah. So with that we moved to, on the Interline that we have now we are doing replicating the same study but in women and the results until this moment because they are not publishing yet. Yeah. They are even even worst because the girls they just lose a strain and they are losing muscle so and then still losing fat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I’m still losing fat also. So like a reduction because there are some many things and the people or some people are like degrading because they control of the die yet that you know that it creates satiation and sensation in that.

Speaker 4:           But we control that. We you’ve seen with several professionals that do you think, what do you, what’s your thoughts? What’s your opinion of how this is how as they were trained training people, we feel like they are more adapted to use a carbohydrate and also that they didn’t have the, because that is something important. They didn’t have a ketogenic, a like experience or biggest periods before maybe taking the cutting phase and that but that is not like enough to have like a Google set of adapted jeans or these kind of like to metabolize fat more. Maybe that is some of the things that the people need to understand, right. Increases and they are more used to have these carbohydrates on. And usually we recommend that because the, the type of exercise that we do during resistance training is, is more carbohydrate dependent. So that’s why why is necessary to withdraw them.

Speaker 4:           So, and we are just trying to show that that is not happening, that that is maybe is not an option in, in training population. Cause that’s a real, I still wear colors in color. Yeah. Calorie surplus or calorie deficits. Gonna determine if you grow up, but the math is not perfect yet. How do you calculate accurately calculate the potential calories in locker biomes alone could change your calorie yield from a meal up to 20% and then we’re looking at the calories that’s determined by metabolic ride. So many other factors. So manufacturers, actually I would like you to quote dr Chunar and the, he’s talked these these morning that he said that that is just okay. The energetic balance is good, but there are some other steps behind the there when you intake the calories because there are many processes that happens before all of that energy goes into the cell. So why maybe you can have a sort of a a well balanced energy in energy but that energy at the end and comes to the sale. So that’s why maybe it’s affecting some processes there. Yeah. Yeah. So them macronutrient manipulation and the timing is important. So that is some people that they continued you saying like the, it’s not important to intake for example or protein or carbohydrate after training, but the old science is supporting this. That is to have better compensation and to have better glycogen restorers

Speaker 3:           and it’s all an adaptation game. So let the importance of cycling. You were saying before too, there’s a very difference between an acute study and a longterm study when we start to adapt. So yeah, that’s, that’s like I’m going to get those references in those papers and make it available when we post up the podcast over and farmer’s daughter and radar. I think it’d be fascinating. Yeah, for sure. I would share with you, was there anything else you wanted to mention Diego? Because I’m conscious that you’ve got a lot on this afternoon cause you’re going to go out and win some data. Blitz. Diego’s got to go out and pretty much summarize a whole lot of in 60 seconds probably what we did in half an hour. You got.

Speaker 4:           Yeah. But it’s okay. But everything was very cool in that experiment actually, because we find that the cluster training could be an ISIS strategy for or some such. So

Speaker 3:           we’re talking about me, I’ll watch it. To me, that idea of doing a B it and having [inaudible].

Speaker 4:           Yeah, that’s on my point just to maybe to close because I said yeah, so, eh, just to continue supporting interdisciplinary work, the, you know, everything mostly be based on science and to have better like result is necessary to do what the science maybe have been a study and to try when the, maybe some of these drawbacks that we have in science in some topics that eh, maybe haven’t been researched. Yeah. The idea is to have some good coaches or experienced people who can help and not to trust in a lot of things that you can find in, you know, with website, advertisement, internet, social network. Because that is like putting worse things here right now.

Speaker 3:           Yeah. And everyone’s different. So it’s very important to take some sort of measurement, get some sort of objective measurements. So you know for you what’s working, huh? That you’ll find there’s nonresponders and responders for a lot of different things. You just got to know which one. I noticed in some of those slides today, I felt so sorry for some of those people because I don’t work. And, and these people were getting smashed training. Some guys were building muscle, others were just losing everything.

Speaker 4:           Yeah. But that, but with that point, maybe it’s important to know that it could be and not only that they are used bad luck, but via a slow process. So could have a very slow process. But these can be optimized by some other supplements. For example, in this study they use the comparison about the training fashion and that by the weed creatine or we the carbohydrate good intake and the high high protein diet. So those kind of a that are like our arms. Yeah. Like the [inaudible] the way that we can fight against these kind of non-responders or, but Oh, that’s great. Yeah. And yeah, and so an individual approach is usually because something works for someone doesn’t necessarily, it’s going to work for everyone. And that’s an important thing and I’m glad you’re out there teaching the coaches and that sort of stuff, how to actually do all this sort of thing properly because there’s no cookie cutter approach.

Speaker 4:           There’s no simple one way that works for everyone. So that’s really fascinating. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I try, I would like you to maybe promote the we Latin American people. This message goes from them that they need to change. Also, I mean, some is Tommy staff in their minds to start doing more collaborations because this is the way that they work. Oh yeah. That it works. Because the more eh, you have these kinds of connections with excellent professional answers. They are so [inaudible] eh, growing and learning. So when that is important, and I mentioned it because I’m a, these kind of a different speed in the progression of designs or, or the economics in our country, depending on the mindset of a person. So that that is so important in on, in my country. It happens too much that the people need to be open minded to follow and this much science happening all over the world, all at the same time.

Speaker 4:           It’s a waste of time. If everyone’s doing the same work, you need to collaborate and that’s what you’re finding and then you can take it back to your people. In Australia we, we getting a lot of data from all over the world and we need that to come back into us and then we try to use our own resources to bring it all together. So that’s how it goes. A perfect scenario. Yeah, networking. That’s what it’s all about. And especially with science and this is where there’s no, there shouldn’t be. And this is the other thing I’ve been really impressed with with his seminar. You can have people with opposing opinions on the same data and that quite happily discussing why they both feel that same way. You know? It’s very important to understand that that is something that we always in, it shouldn’t be bias in science.

Speaker 4:           You should never take science personally. If something has been shown to do something in the past and then new data’s changing, just embrace it. That’s what it’s all about. We try always to say that to the, to the students and to other colleagues that we have that we need to Diablo everything. Yeah. So we are doubting actually when we are founding and that’s why we continue doing more research on what happened if we changed maybe these one or maybe we didn’t control this. So yeah. And lots of replies. Yeah. And we keep saying you got to share some of the bad news. Are we going to further the scientific endeavors? I think it’s fascinating stuff. The ketogenic diets scrutiny. That’s really messed with my mind. What you’ve just told me there. I think it’s fascinating. Yeah, it was fascinating. That one. Yeah. And [inaudible] results and they are going to be more fascinated [inaudible] publishing. Yeah.

Speaker 3:           I mean everything changes. You know, we just keep thinking we, we kind of think we know what we’re talking about and then we prove it to be slightly different. So no, it’s good fun. Well thanks for your time Diego. I’m going to let you go and get ready for this thing. Now we’re having here. Oh, no worries. He gotta get to Australia. Do you want a summit later this year and bring it over? We’re going to try to just start doing them every year, so hopefully we can get an excuse to bring you over for one of them, so that could be amazing job for me. More than honored to be there and bring you got bugs with you. Yeah. Thanks so much, Matt. Thanks for having us. Another other projects and we’ll finish it off.

Speaker 2:           Thanks for listening, Christian everything. Well, except what we say.